Aloha Bob,
For Transpac this year I have decided it's about time we carry Asymmetrical
Kites. We got killed, hammered, destroyed last time and one of the reasons
was it was a more reachy race than usual. I can't do that again.
So my questions are: first give me fee estimates on these, I am thinking
about carrying the same standard poles and having a deck mount for one to be
set up so we can place the pole a little forward of the bow while using the
Asail. Will the deck/boat hold together? Should this be centered or port &
starboard at the toe-rail? Is this a stupid idea?
Hope all is well.
Aloha,
gib
Hi again, Gib,
First, you need to ask your sail maker to have a conversation with the
Transpac rules people to see how big a pole/asymmetrical would result in
what kind of rating increase. If after that you decide the performance
increase justifies the handicap, then we can talk about how to structure it.
You can simply put a pad eye on the very bow if you only want to go 1
foot forward of the head stay. Or you can drop a penalty pole, still on
the mast but all the way forward to the head stay, down to the pulpit.
Those are the "easy ways out".
To go the 5 feet or so your sail maker probably wants to go ahead of the
fore stay, you'll need a fatter, stronger pole out of carbon, as a
standard pole will not take the bending. You can mount it on the side
decks, so long as the tip, when deployed, is close to center line. See
how the SC 52 did it.
Hope this helps,
Bob
1/27/11
Hi Bob,
At 1st I thought 1 foot past the headstay would be fine. Then I looked at the boat and that would not get the pole to the bow (6" short). I will check with Dan Nowlan, but, I thought if we use our standard pole however mount it on the deck 2-4 feet forward of the mast that we would be OK.
The keel you designed, could that concept work if: Keep keel bolts as is.
There would be a bump where the keel fastens. From the bump everything gets thinner.
The bulb at the bottom would carry all the lead. Keep 8 foot draft. Maybe the net result would not be so hot. If you send your fax # I can send a sketch.
Aloha,
gib
Hi Dan,
UK had the certificate so I am set when the ORR renewal comes in. That
sail was built in 2005 but, has only been out of the bag a couple of times
20 minutes tops.
Question on using spin. poles: Using standard pole size, can we mount
it on the deck forward of the mast, like a sprint but not that far? Same pole
new location.
Thanks & aloha,
gib
For Transpac this year I have decided it's about time we carry Asymmetrical
Kites. We got killed, hammered, destroyed last time and one of the reasons
was it was a more reachy race than usual. I can't do that again.
So my questions are: first give me fee estimates on these, I am thinking
about carrying the same standard poles and having a deck mount for one to be
set up so we can place the pole a little forward of the bow while using the
Asail. Will the deck/boat hold together? Should this be centered or port &
starboard at the toe-rail? Is this a stupid idea?
Hope all is well.
Aloha,
gib
Hi again, Gib,
First, you need to ask your sail maker to have a conversation with the
Transpac rules people to see how big a pole/asymmetrical would result in
what kind of rating increase. If after that you decide the performance
increase justifies the handicap, then we can talk about how to structure it.
You can simply put a pad eye on the very bow if you only want to go 1
foot forward of the head stay. Or you can drop a penalty pole, still on
the mast but all the way forward to the head stay, down to the pulpit.
Those are the "easy ways out".
To go the 5 feet or so your sail maker probably wants to go ahead of the
fore stay, you'll need a fatter, stronger pole out of carbon, as a
standard pole will not take the bending. You can mount it on the side
decks, so long as the tip, when deployed, is close to center line. See
how the SC 52 did it.
Hope this helps,
Bob
1/27/11
Hi Bob,
At 1st I thought 1 foot past the headstay would be fine. Then I looked at the boat and that would not get the pole to the bow (6" short). I will check with Dan Nowlan, but, I thought if we use our standard pole however mount it on the deck 2-4 feet forward of the mast that we would be OK.
The keel you designed, could that concept work if: Keep keel bolts as is.
There would be a bump where the keel fastens. From the bump everything gets thinner.
The bulb at the bottom would carry all the lead. Keep 8 foot draft. Maybe the net result would not be so hot. If you send your fax # I can send a sketch.
Aloha,
gib
Hi Dan,
UK had the certificate so I am set when the ORR renewal comes in. That
sail was built in 2005 but, has only been out of the bag a couple of times
20 minutes tops.
Question on using spin. poles: Using standard pole size, can we mount
it on the deck forward of the mast, like a sprint but not that far? Same pole
new location.
Thanks & aloha,
gib
1/28/11
Gib
Yes you can do that, but it cannot extend further than if it were
mounted to the mast without a new measurement.
Question. Will you still use your pole on the mast and be able to pull
it back? Or will you only set the spinnakers like they are on a sprit?
If only set like they were on a sprit, the rating is slower - but then
you cannot pull the pole back when running.
Dan
Hi Dan,
Please excuse my naive questions. I was thinking of having a fitting built
which wood make my spinnaker poles usable both on the mast for conventional
kites and then mount to deck so leading point of the pole would protrude a
foot or 2 forward of the bow to carry asymmetrical kites. I guess I want the
best of both worlds (running & reaching)
Aloha,
gib
1/31/11
Aloha again Bob,
After feed back from US Sailing we will probably take a hit for 2 feet penalty pole. So, now, do we use same pole in 2 positions as I described or do we buy a new 2 foot longer pole and mast mount only? I have no experience with Asails.
Aloha,
gib
Gib-
Since you would carry the 2 foot penalty always, why not use the 2 foot longer pole in all conditions; even with the symmetrical chutes?
Also, be sure to inform your sailmaker that you are using a standard type spinnaker pole "forward against the headstay" and "down on the top of the bow pulpit". Because he won't be able to make the luff length as long as if there were a deck-mounted prod.
Cheers,
Bob
Gib
You may do that under the ORR rules. However, since the measurement when being
used as a sprit is greater than when being used as a pole, the rule will assign that longer measurement for both the sprit and pole.
Gib
Yes you can do that, but it cannot extend further than if it were
mounted to the mast without a new measurement.
Question. Will you still use your pole on the mast and be able to pull
it back? Or will you only set the spinnakers like they are on a sprit?
If only set like they were on a sprit, the rating is slower - but then
you cannot pull the pole back when running.
Dan
Hi Dan,
Please excuse my naive questions. I was thinking of having a fitting built
which wood make my spinnaker poles usable both on the mast for conventional
kites and then mount to deck so leading point of the pole would protrude a
foot or 2 forward of the bow to carry asymmetrical kites. I guess I want the
best of both worlds (running & reaching)
Aloha,
gib
1/31/11
Aloha again Bob,
After feed back from US Sailing we will probably take a hit for 2 feet penalty pole. So, now, do we use same pole in 2 positions as I described or do we buy a new 2 foot longer pole and mast mount only? I have no experience with Asails.
Aloha,
gib
Gib-
Since you would carry the 2 foot penalty always, why not use the 2 foot longer pole in all conditions; even with the symmetrical chutes?
Also, be sure to inform your sailmaker that you are using a standard type spinnaker pole "forward against the headstay" and "down on the top of the bow pulpit". Because he won't be able to make the luff length as long as if there were a deck-mounted prod.
Cheers,
Bob
Gib
You may do that under the ORR rules. However, since the measurement when being
used as a sprit is greater than when being used as a pole, the rule will assign that longer measurement for both the sprit and pole.
...Thank you very much Dan. I have brought Bill Riner in on this discussion as
our Transpac navigator. The big questions now are how much is the penalty
and if we can make up the time over the long course? Do you know what the
penalty will be? Have the other SC50s gone to penalty poles or some other
technique to use Asymmetrical kites?
Thank you for your continued assistance.
Aloha,
gib
Gib
Not sure what the impact would be on your Transpac rating. Do evaluate
questions like yours we have available a trial certificate. The cost is
$150. With that we could provide you with the Transpac rating increment.
The sharp guys have gone to penalty poles - about + 2 feet
Hey guys,
The boat will be at Kaneohe YC from the 16-20th for provisioning. I
would like to leave as early as possible. We can stay on the boat.
The club has showers, pool & snack-bar, limited dining & bar. I will
have a rental car, so I can pick everyone up at the airport. I am
taking an early flight on the 16th.
Please let me know if you have any food suggestions. I've started
putting a list together. I usually do things that are easy to
prepare. Dave, does the boat have refrigeration or just an icebox?
Is there a stove/oven?
Bill
1/27/11
Chasch Mer had a water tank added prior to the '07 TP. During the race the floorboards were off and the task of fixing the leak? getting it to work? was going on.
The water from that tank tasted like sour glue. It was horrible and undrinkable. I would have switched to drinking the bottled water reserve and kept that tank as reserve but we didn't.
My advice and what I do is bring a separate personal water bottle with a built-in filter. This is one way to combat the bad water on some boats. It was only the one tank and probably because it was new.
I also bring individual dry-drink packets to cover the flavor of bad water.
Dave
The water from that tank tasted like sour glue. It was horrible and undrinkable. I would have switched to drinking the bottled water reserve and kept that tank as reserve but we didn't.
My advice and what I do is bring a separate personal water bottle with a built-in filter. This is one way to combat the bad water on some boats. It was only the one tank and probably because it was new.
I also bring individual dry-drink packets to cover the flavor of bad water.
Dave
...Hopefully, the tank is seasoned now and the water will be better. I do the drink mixes also. We will probably take quite a few of the 2 1/2 gal water jugs. Bill
Bill,
At this time I am looking at flying on 4/18.
I have not contacted Gib regarding the condition of the boat when we arrive. I have been going to you with questions to get a dialog going between all of us.
Please confirm that the boat will be ready to depart and that it is not a working week on the boat to do all the things that are not done. I have fresh memories of showing up at boats and expectations of the crew to put the boat back together. I understand provisioning but getting it seaworthy should not be an issue.
I do not remember any refrigeration and think that it is icebox and coolers. Dry ice?
There is an oven and stove. I did not use it and have no reference as to how good they are.
Dave
At this time I am looking at flying on 4/18.
I have not contacted Gib regarding the condition of the boat when we arrive. I have been going to you with questions to get a dialog going between all of us.
Please confirm that the boat will be ready to depart and that it is not a working week on the boat to do all the things that are not done. I have fresh memories of showing up at boats and expectations of the crew to put the boat back together. I understand provisioning but getting it seaworthy should not be an issue.
I do not remember any refrigeration and think that it is icebox and coolers. Dry ice?
There is an oven and stove. I did not use it and have no reference as to how good they are.
Dave
...I understand. I'll touch base with Gib on the condition of the boat. Dry ice will work, but it won't last the entire time. We'll need things that aren't perishable. I'm working on a provisions list and will send it out to everyone for review. Bill
1/28/11
Bill,
I deal with a boat owner that has an extensive crew list for local racing and he puts everything on an Excel spreadsheet.
It is laid out for all of us to modify our own column and then send it back. This is very efficient.
For the provision list I suggest doing the same thing with each of us getting a vertical column and the ingredients on the left. That way we can see what each has listed and can eliminate you having to decipher stuff and duplicate entries.
Dave
I deal with a boat owner that has an extensive crew list for local racing and he puts everything on an Excel spreadsheet.
It is laid out for all of us to modify our own column and then send it back. This is very efficient.
For the provision list I suggest doing the same thing with each of us getting a vertical column and the ingredients on the left. That way we can see what each has listed and can eliminate you having to decipher stuff and duplicate entries.
Dave
1/30/11
Gib,
We all need the dates of the Long Beach schedule that include:
* when the crew is expected to arrive
* first crew meeting
* practice schedule
* anything else
I read in draft #4 that you mention you won't be able to make the skipper's meeting and now with the 7/4 start I assume you will now make it. Please advise again.
Simple requests:
* Tylaska fittings for the spinn gear (sized for a finger to fit thru and not a pencil for ease of operations in the dark)
* stainless frying pan, stainless small & large pot, stainless spatula (not the expensive stuff and Target stuff works. I moved away from Teflon too many years ago and only work with cast iron and stainless. I intend to cook on the delivery and stainless is fantastic. It is easy to clean and work with.)
thanks.
We all need the dates of the Long Beach schedule that include:
* when the crew is expected to arrive
* first crew meeting
* practice schedule
* anything else
I read in draft #4 that you mention you won't be able to make the skipper's meeting and now with the 7/4 start I assume you will now make it. Please advise again.
Simple requests:
* Tylaska fittings for the spinn gear (sized for a finger to fit thru and not a pencil for ease of operations in the dark)
* stainless frying pan, stainless small & large pot, stainless spatula (not the expensive stuff and Target stuff works. I moved away from Teflon too many years ago and only work with cast iron and stainless. I intend to cook on the delivery and stainless is fantastic. It is easy to clean and work with.)
thanks.
My flight:
Mon, Apr 18, 2011
San Jose International Airport (SJC) to Honolulu International Airport (HNL)
Depart: 09:25am
Arrive: 11:55am
Hawaiian AirlinesFlight 43 (on Boeing 767-300)
Great Dave, I will ask Jackie to keep the cottage open if not rented. You guys depart on the 20th from Kaneohe.
Aloha,
Gib
Aloha,
Gib
Bill,
Re food suggestions - I vote for easy. I'm a Brit therefore recognized world-wide as having no comprehension of fine food :-)
Instant cereals, sandwiches, easy stews, soups, pastas are fine with me. I think you guys already talked about MREs to cover the rougher days.
Instant cereals, sandwiches, easy stews, soups, pastas are fine with me. I think you guys already talked about MREs to cover the rougher days.
Working on my schedule/flight.
Clive
Clive
1/31/11
Hey there Dammit,
Well I looked at the schedule & I think all of your questions have been answered in the current schedule #4.
Thanks for bringing this up I will rewrite that section so it is clear in #5.
Anything else? It's good to have someone keep me honest.
Aloha,
gib
Well I looked at the schedule & I think all of your questions have been answered in the current schedule #4.
Thanks for bringing this up I will rewrite that section so it is clear in #5.
Anything else? It's good to have someone keep me honest.
Aloha,
gib
2/1/11
I'm flying monday 4/18 (same as Dave, but different flight):
American #29
Leave San Francisco (SFO) 08:35am
Arrive Honolulu (HNL) 11:05am
Arrival is 50mins earlier than Dave's flight - can wait to optimize ground logistics.
Clive
