Hi Dave,
I'll be starting serious planning for the delivery after the holidays. I'd appreciate your input since you've done the race, know the boat, and have much more west coast experience than me.
Merry Christmas,
Bill
I'll be starting serious planning for the delivery after the holidays. I'd appreciate your input since you've done the race, know the boat, and have much more west coast experience than me.
Merry Christmas,
Bill
12/16/10
Bill,
I have lots of opinions about this stuff as we all do. I'll start thinking it thru and send it to you as it comes.
Dave
12/19/10
Bill,
When I prepare for sailing trips I tend to over-analyze and address as many details as possible. I think it pays off to be well prepared due to all the potential variables involved.
I am in no way the authority but want to at least share what I will be doing to prep for my next several trips. There is no order of importance to the topics but rather what I am thinking at the moment. I will start off with clothes.
I have crewed Chasch Mer on a round-trip Waikiki/Lahaina and 1-way Long Beach to Waikiki. HI water is generally rough. We will be experiencing it immediately after departure. The first thoughts that come to mind are that there are whales within a couple miles of departing Waikiki Yacht Club and the boat is well under sail. It is imperative that we all take precautionary meds prior to leaving to eliminate losing any crew. I always take non-drowsy Dramamine on the day of departure only. I have too many experiences of losing half the crew or more within the initial departure and that is tough when it is a skeleton crew to begin with.
1) I always wear long-sleeved and long-pants to combat the sunburn issue. I work outside in construction and have learned in-depth how to survive in that environment year-round and sailing is no different.
2) Granted it is warm in HI and will be for at least the first 48 hours and very light clothing during the day works. At night it will cool down and jackets are worn. Due to the luggage issue it will most likely be a foulie jacket.
3) It will rain and it is pretty important to stay dry and there is no dodger or auto-pilot so that means someone is at the wheel and getting wet. Once wet it gets pretty cold in that breeze.
4) A light sleeping bag works and I generally sleep in whatever I am wearing and keep plenty warm. There are 2 berths in back and will most likely be hot-bunked. There are 2 in the settee and will also be used. The 2 rat-holes under the settee's will not be used. I used these on the Transpac and they were dark, hard to get in and out and somewhat cramped but actually comfortable.
5) Feet-forward sleeping is critical and that makes it pretty hard to use the rat-holes. I stress feet-forward in case of hitting an object and we come to a sudden stop. The potential is a neck injury from hitting the bulkhead. Some pipe-berths are designed head-forward and I could never figure why.
6) The route will take us north of the TP route and I will plan for it to be colder sooner. There will be no laundry done on board as the clothes will never dry so we have to plan clothing very well. It is very important to stay dry and keep the clothes dry. This also means do not store bags and clothes on the floor in case of flooding. All of Gib's clothes got soaked due to a transom leak the first night out on the '07 TP and his bag was stored in the aft section. We should plan to store all the bags above the settee's.
7) It is impossible to pin-point the latitude of approach to CA and I will plan for it to be well north of Long Beach but south of SF. The water temp will be in the very low 50s and the air temp will be the same. If we get a typical CA marine layer it will be cold and damp with constant drips.
8) For CA water I wear a 1-pc fairly heavy jumpsuit that is my dry-suit clothing for diving. I plan to bring this and wear it for the last 3 days or so. It is the warmest thing I have and have never been chilled with it.
9) Sailing boots are critical too. Once we get closer to CA it will get much colder and if you get chilled it is hard to come back from that. I wear snow skiing socks in mine off CA. The daytime is not so bad but it is the nights that wear you down.
10) I will bring a heavy set of Gil foulies for this entire trip. I also have a couple warm hats that also cover the ears. That cold wind can be bitter.
When I prepare for sailing trips I tend to over-analyze and address as many details as possible. I think it pays off to be well prepared due to all the potential variables involved.
I am in no way the authority but want to at least share what I will be doing to prep for my next several trips. There is no order of importance to the topics but rather what I am thinking at the moment. I will start off with clothes.
I have crewed Chasch Mer on a round-trip Waikiki/Lahaina and 1-way Long Beach to Waikiki. HI water is generally rough. We will be experiencing it immediately after departure. The first thoughts that come to mind are that there are whales within a couple miles of departing Waikiki Yacht Club and the boat is well under sail. It is imperative that we all take precautionary meds prior to leaving to eliminate losing any crew. I always take non-drowsy Dramamine on the day of departure only. I have too many experiences of losing half the crew or more within the initial departure and that is tough when it is a skeleton crew to begin with.
1) I always wear long-sleeved and long-pants to combat the sunburn issue. I work outside in construction and have learned in-depth how to survive in that environment year-round and sailing is no different.
2) Granted it is warm in HI and will be for at least the first 48 hours and very light clothing during the day works. At night it will cool down and jackets are worn. Due to the luggage issue it will most likely be a foulie jacket.
3) It will rain and it is pretty important to stay dry and there is no dodger or auto-pilot so that means someone is at the wheel and getting wet. Once wet it gets pretty cold in that breeze.
4) A light sleeping bag works and I generally sleep in whatever I am wearing and keep plenty warm. There are 2 berths in back and will most likely be hot-bunked. There are 2 in the settee and will also be used. The 2 rat-holes under the settee's will not be used. I used these on the Transpac and they were dark, hard to get in and out and somewhat cramped but actually comfortable.
5) Feet-forward sleeping is critical and that makes it pretty hard to use the rat-holes. I stress feet-forward in case of hitting an object and we come to a sudden stop. The potential is a neck injury from hitting the bulkhead. Some pipe-berths are designed head-forward and I could never figure why.
6) The route will take us north of the TP route and I will plan for it to be colder sooner. There will be no laundry done on board as the clothes will never dry so we have to plan clothing very well. It is very important to stay dry and keep the clothes dry. This also means do not store bags and clothes on the floor in case of flooding. All of Gib's clothes got soaked due to a transom leak the first night out on the '07 TP and his bag was stored in the aft section. We should plan to store all the bags above the settee's.
7) It is impossible to pin-point the latitude of approach to CA and I will plan for it to be well north of Long Beach but south of SF. The water temp will be in the very low 50s and the air temp will be the same. If we get a typical CA marine layer it will be cold and damp with constant drips.
8) For CA water I wear a 1-pc fairly heavy jumpsuit that is my dry-suit clothing for diving. I plan to bring this and wear it for the last 3 days or so. It is the warmest thing I have and have never been chilled with it.
9) Sailing boots are critical too. Once we get closer to CA it will get much colder and if you get chilled it is hard to come back from that. I wear snow skiing socks in mine off CA. The daytime is not so bad but it is the nights that wear you down.
10) I will bring a heavy set of Gil foulies for this entire trip. I also have a couple warm hats that also cover the ears. That cold wind can be bitter.
On Dec 22, 2010, at 2:12 PM, clive wrote:
Dave,
I'm definitely up for bringing the boat across - I'm jazzed by the prospect. Rhonda's cool with it, and I can work it in context of next job etc.
Dave,
I'm definitely up for bringing the boat across - I'm jazzed by the prospect. Rhonda's cool with it, and I can work it in context of next job etc.
I'm assuming roughly 4/15-5/15 knowing things can change when it comes to a sail boat.
If it still makes sense to you, plz go ahead and raise with Gib etc. Let me know if you need anything from me, and I'm happy to have call with Gib etc if necessary.
Cheers, Clive
Clive,
I'll send an e/m to Bill Riner the delivery captain. I am going to push hard. I'll work Gib if needed.
Sent from my iPhone / Please excuse brevity and errors.
Clive,
I'll send an e/m to Bill Riner the delivery captain. I am going to push hard. I'll work Gib if needed.
Sent from my iPhone / Please excuse brevity and errors.
12/22/10
Dave,
We think along the same lines. I'd rather be over-prepared also. Your experience is really helpful for me for understand the conditions.
I rarely get seasick, but I also take Bonine the first day out. Mark never gets seasick. Never would have though of sleeping feet-forward, but makes perfect sense. I have trouble on long trips if I don't stay hydrated. My digestive system will shut down if I don't. Your body pulls water away from your intestines when your dehydrated for more that several days. I learned that at a Wilderness First Aid class I took. I found out the hard way during the Caribbean 1500.
Not looking forward to no dodger, bimini, and autopilot. :-(
If you don't mind, I will forward your email to Mark. I'm sure he will find it as informative as I did.
Regards,
Bill
We think along the same lines. I'd rather be over-prepared also. Your experience is really helpful for me for understand the conditions.
I rarely get seasick, but I also take Bonine the first day out. Mark never gets seasick. Never would have though of sleeping feet-forward, but makes perfect sense. I have trouble on long trips if I don't stay hydrated. My digestive system will shut down if I don't. Your body pulls water away from your intestines when your dehydrated for more that several days. I learned that at a Wilderness First Aid class I took. I found out the hard way during the Caribbean 1500.
Not looking forward to no dodger, bimini, and autopilot. :-(
If you don't mind, I will forward your email to Mark. I'm sure he will find it as informative as I did.
Regards,
Bill
12/23/10
Bill,
A very good friend of mine is available to make the delivery if you are looking for crew. Here are the key stats:
* met in sailing class in 2000
* have sailed the bay together since
* did the Baja Haha 2001 on Learjet
* 2002 June Baja to SF delivery on Learjet
* I have been on both of his offshore runs and vouch for him
* great personality and easy to get along with
* VP at Cisco
There are many qualities that I look for in certain crew spots and he fills the list. I've talked to him in-depth about this delivery and what is expected and he is willing. He is not looking to be in a leadership position but would rather be a worker. I think that is a good characteristic for this run.
He and I are going to bare-boat charter in the Carib starting next winter and we also plan to do the Baja again next Oct.
Please seriously consider him, Clive Foreman, for the 4th spot (or the 5th spot).
Dave
12/24/10
Will do. Please have him send me a resume. I think it's doubtful the Chicago guy will go.
Bill
12/24/10
Will do. Please have him send me a resume. I think it's doubtful the Chicago guy will go.
Bill
12/23/10
Bill,
These are my thoughts regarding pfd's. I'm sure we are all on the same page and have no doubts about using them but I figure it might as well get said. I have seen the spectrum from waist packs to survival suits. I also want to know and see what gear everyone has as we depart so I know what we are looking for. I have the following attached to my pfd:
* Mustang Survival with an auto-inflate (typical over the shoulder with built-in harness)
* Water-activated strobe (Firefly 2 Waterbug)
* Manual strobe (ACR electronics not an actual strobe but the lens simulates a strobe with movement)
* Dye pack (used exclusively to be seen from above by a helo)
* Whistle
* Inflatable sausage (bright orange manually-inflated tube that is held vertical to be used to find an object in the water. This is a scuba device)
* Inflatable sausage (bright orange manually-inflated tube that is held vertical to be used to find an object in the water. This is a scuba device)
* Greatland Rescue Laser Light
* Orion: Search & Rescue Back Pack Rocket (3 waterproof personal flares)
*Knife/fid
I will now carry 2 knifes (1 high, 1 low) after having read recent stories of survivors needing a chest and leg knife. I usually carry a VHF to comm with the boat if I am in the water and cannot be seen. I also carry a small GPS to give coord's if I am in the water and cannot be seen.
It is my opinion that if I go over I want to have control in the rescue and that is why I carry all the gear. It is next to impossible to see objects in the water either day or night. I figure if I go in and we all know I have a radio at least I can call positions. I also assume that I am lost and will need to wait for a CG pick-up.
When the pfd is inflated it forces the body to lay on its back and the tubes are high on the chest inhibiting access to gear. All my gear is attached with lanyards that allow it to float at arm's length. Granted, I have yet to use this stuff and can only prepare based on being in the water during scuba.
12/24/10
Dave,
These are some damn good ideas. You must have been a Boy Scout! I have a Mustang with harness and a pouch for survival stuff. Don't take flares because of travel hassles, but of course have a strobe and whistle. Always a knife. The idea of the VHF and GPS is interesting. The boat may not see you, but you will probably be able to keep the boat in sight. I usually wear a Garmin wrist GPS, so I would just need to clip on my VHF. I did pick up a ACR PLB for less than $200. I do have a "survival bag" that like the mylar survival blanket, but in bag form so you can get in and stay warmer. In cold cold water, you're still screwed but slower. :-) I am also getting a crotch strap for my PFD. Just raced with a guy and they are becoming mandatory on offshore races.
I'm assuming Chash Mer has a MOD pole.
Merry Christmas,
Bill
You will most likely get the crew spot. It looks like his 4th won't do it. Act fast and let's close this deal within the next few days.
Cheers.
Sent from my iPhone / Please excuse brevity and errors.
It's a Garmin Foretrex 101. I love it. I actually used it to finish a Mexico race when the boat electronics crapped out.
Bill
These are some damn good ideas. You must have been a Boy Scout! I have a Mustang with harness and a pouch for survival stuff. Don't take flares because of travel hassles, but of course have a strobe and whistle. Always a knife. The idea of the VHF and GPS is interesting. The boat may not see you, but you will probably be able to keep the boat in sight. I usually wear a Garmin wrist GPS, so I would just need to clip on my VHF. I did pick up a ACR PLB for less than $200. I do have a "survival bag" that like the mylar survival blanket, but in bag form so you can get in and stay warmer. In cold cold water, you're still screwed but slower. :-) I am also getting a crotch strap for my PFD. Just raced with a guy and they are becoming mandatory on offshore races.
I'm assuming Chash Mer has a MOD pole.
Merry Christmas,
Bill
Dec 25, 2010 09:18:58 AM
Put together a resume.You will most likely get the crew spot. It looks like his 4th won't do it. Act fast and let's close this deal within the next few days.
Cheers.
Sent from my iPhone / Please excuse brevity and errors.
Dave - resume attached. Thanks for working this!
Clive
On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 8:43 AM
Bill,
I'll dig out my crotch strap. I used to have it on board and everyone had no idea why and eventually I stopped using it. I believe in it too.
What model wrist GPS are you using?
Dave Bill
12/30/10
Bill,
I am forwarding Clive's resume. He is willing to commit to the trip and I think he is a great fit.
Dave
I am forwarding Clive's resume. He is willing to commit to the trip and I think he is a great fit.
Dave
12/31/10
Bill,
I have some specific questions regarding fuel.
What is the fuel capacity in the tanks?
How much fuel will be carried in cans on deck?
How are they attached?
What is the filling procedure?
What is the burn rate?
Burn rate at specific RPMs? (needed to calculate multi-day motoring/motor-sailing)
I have many reasons for this info. Primarily, and this is not un-common, to calculate how many miles from the target destination that we can start the motor and make it to port. It is very common to fire up the motor for the final run.
Many things come in to play. If we turn east too soon and have to motor thru the high then we need to know how many miles we can motor without sacrificing safety at the end. The end being that we need the option to be able to motor within 20-50 miles of the CA coast. The commercial traffic is dense and so is the fishing traffic.
I don't put as much faith in rules of the road and always fall back on the fact that bigger always wins.
The pacific high is real and can be relied on. Honolulu is at N21 degrees and there is great potential that the path we take will go very near N40. Granted, LA is N34 so there is not a lot of penalty going to N40.
It is highly unlikely that we will get to turn east at N38 and should plan to turn east higher than N40. I've heard plenty of stories of boats going a minimum of 400+ due north before having any chance of turning (under sail). Turning at that early point seems a reward.
I've also heard stories of going as high as Washington. The higher up the west coast we get the harder everything gets. The fishing traffic is much more dense and the swells can be very hard to deal with. For safety we need to plan an approach much higher than Long Beach and know where all the ports are. This part of the trip is where it is the coldest and wettest and most dangerous.
Dave
I have some specific questions regarding fuel.
What is the fuel capacity in the tanks?
How much fuel will be carried in cans on deck?
How are they attached?
What is the filling procedure?
What is the burn rate?
Burn rate at specific RPMs? (needed to calculate multi-day motoring/motor-sailing)
I have many reasons for this info. Primarily, and this is not un-common, to calculate how many miles from the target destination that we can start the motor and make it to port. It is very common to fire up the motor for the final run.
Many things come in to play. If we turn east too soon and have to motor thru the high then we need to know how many miles we can motor without sacrificing safety at the end. The end being that we need the option to be able to motor within 20-50 miles of the CA coast. The commercial traffic is dense and so is the fishing traffic.
I don't put as much faith in rules of the road and always fall back on the fact that bigger always wins.
The pacific high is real and can be relied on. Honolulu is at N21 degrees and there is great potential that the path we take will go very near N40. Granted, LA is N34 so there is not a lot of penalty going to N40.
It is highly unlikely that we will get to turn east at N38 and should plan to turn east higher than N40. I've heard plenty of stories of boats going a minimum of 400+ due north before having any chance of turning (under sail). Turning at that early point seems a reward.
I've also heard stories of going as high as Washington. The higher up the west coast we get the harder everything gets. The fishing traffic is much more dense and the swells can be very hard to deal with. For safety we need to plan an approach much higher than Long Beach and know where all the ports are. This part of the trip is where it is the coldest and wettest and most dangerous.
Dave
12/31/10
Bill,
How many 12v outlets?
How many are already taken?
I want to plug in a Garmin 76CSx GPS that remains plugged in the entire trip. The batteries only last 24hrs when it is navigating. I want to get a GPS track so I can take that info and overlay it on GoogleEarth.
I also want to track barometric pressure.
It would be great if there is a 12v in the cockpit. I can't remember. I am sure there will probably be 4 handheld GPS's on board since we all like these gadgets.
Can you request Gib to install a 12v in the cockpit?
I am willing to leave mine at the helm for the duration so we all can use the convenience. I remember in the past that the only info was at the nav station with no repeaters.
Dave
How many 12v outlets?
How many are already taken?
I want to plug in a Garmin 76CSx GPS that remains plugged in the entire trip. The batteries only last 24hrs when it is navigating. I want to get a GPS track so I can take that info and overlay it on GoogleEarth.
I also want to track barometric pressure.
It would be great if there is a 12v in the cockpit. I can't remember. I am sure there will probably be 4 handheld GPS's on board since we all like these gadgets.
Can you request Gib to install a 12v in the cockpit?
I am willing to leave mine at the helm for the duration so we all can use the convenience. I remember in the past that the only info was at the nav station with no repeaters.
Dave
1/2/11
Hey, Happy New Year!
I'll ask Gib about the 12V situation. I'm sure we'll have a place to keep yours plugged in. That will be cool to see it on Google Earth. I'm glad to hear that you have a barometer. I've been looking for one.
Bill
Bill
1/2/11
Hey,
Just talked to Gib. There is 42 gals in the inboard tank and we'll take 5-6 5-gal jerry jugs extra. They have never run out of fuel on the delivery and once never used the extra fuel. The engine is a Vetus 32 hp. He is sending me the manual which has specific fuel usage rates. A good way to attach them is to lash a board between stantions and lash the jugs to the board. We need to remember to duct tape the caps on the jerry jugs. I've had them come off before. Also make sure there is a gasket in the caps.
I'm also concerned about the commercial traffic without radar or AIS. Especially with a good chance of fog. My last delivery, we went into NYC at daybreak and spent the entire night dodging trawlers, fishing buoys, and freighters. It wasn't a big deal, but we had radar, AIS, and a nice clear moonlit night. I went into Holyhead, Wales, in the fog once during the day. We could hear, but not see, the fast ferries from Ireland. No radar and pre-AIS. A little too exciting for me. ;-)
Good questions...
Bill
Just talked to Gib. There is 42 gals in the inboard tank and we'll take 5-6 5-gal jerry jugs extra. They have never run out of fuel on the delivery and once never used the extra fuel. The engine is a Vetus 32 hp. He is sending me the manual which has specific fuel usage rates. A good way to attach them is to lash a board between stantions and lash the jugs to the board. We need to remember to duct tape the caps on the jerry jugs. I've had them come off before. Also make sure there is a gasket in the caps.
I'm also concerned about the commercial traffic without radar or AIS. Especially with a good chance of fog. My last delivery, we went into NYC at daybreak and spent the entire night dodging trawlers, fishing buoys, and freighters. It wasn't a big deal, but we had radar, AIS, and a nice clear moonlit night. I went into Holyhead, Wales, in the fog once during the day. We could hear, but not see, the fast ferries from Ireland. No radar and pre-AIS. A little too exciting for me. ;-)
Good questions...
Bill
1/3/11
I'm glad to hear you had a can issue too. A can leaked on one of my runs and ran up and down the entire length of the boat for about 12 hours. It was too rough to fix it in the dark and we waited until sunrise. Of course the fumes came through my hatch.
I would like to have a worry-free attachment and have seen good ones that use a backing board between stanchions. There is also room on the upper part of the transom.
I am going to assume that Gib will have the boat fueled and ready when we get there so we don't have to piece it together. He has too much experience to overlook anything.
Dave
1/3/10
Bill,
We need a schedule/graph/strict guideline for the use of the hydraulics that tension the back-stay. We need to know load limits, when to apply, when to ease, etc.
Kokopelli SC52 lost their mast in benign conditions a few years ago doing the same run. I talked with a crew-member and thru word of mouth it sounds like there was too much pressure applied and it snapped.
Dave
That sounds like a design problem. You shouldn't be able to do that. Probably a carbon fiber mast. I'll add it to the list of things to discuss with Gib.
Bill
Bill
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